SPEAKER_00 0:01

I think the thing that sort of frightens that gorgeous people a little bit is that I think the word sustainability is and particularly in regards to websites like, oh god, that's either A going to be really bloody hard or it's going to cost me a ton of money. And it doesn't have to be either of those things.

SPEAKER_01 0:20

Hey Moxie family, another podcast episode with one of my very favorite people. And I will say that I have said that about a lot of the guests that I've interviewed. But I think that's just because I really like everyone that I've gotten to talk to so far. Um, but it says, uh, I cannot believe when you said that we had never actually been on a meeting together. Like, I feel like I know you. I feel that, you know, like I like read your emails. We have emailed. I hired you to design my all my agreements so that everything looks nice in my own personal moxie. So I just feel like, you know, we didn't even need a meeting, uh a virtual meeting.

SPEAKER_00 1:08

I just yeah, and seeing your face the first time, I was like, it doesn't feel any I feel like we've we've already done this this dance for four centers.

SPEAKER_01 1:17

So yes, yes. There is none of the none of the awkwardness. Exactly. Well, I would love, I would love to have you kind of talk about yourself a little bit. Um, talk about uh who you are, where you are, and uh a little bit about whail tail digital, and then we'll you know we'll get into more things about all of that.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

No worries. So uh yeah, my name's Says, which is the Aussie short for Sarah, but I go by Say everywhere. So because there are so many Sarah's, I need a way to distinguish myself, I guess you could say. Um I'm a sustainable website designer, so I create websites that are essentially better for people and the planet. And by that I mean they are both more environmentally friendly and make a lower carbon footprint, but that they're also better for people if they're accessible and inclusive for everyone. It's sort of a two-pronged attack, but with so many people taking a view and a movement towards sustainability, it seemed like the perfect angle for me, particularly because I'm already so passionate about the environment anyway. So yeah, whale tail digital is my best. I run it from my home here in Harvey Bay, Queensland, Australia. So if you're looking on a map, uh you look up the east of Australia, there'll be a giant sand island there called Gari, or formerly Fraser Island, and I'm just on the inside of there. So that's where I am, and that's what I do, and I love it. I've been I've been working with websites now for 25 years since I was in high school. Um, and I only started the business in 2021. Um, and yeah, it was just a dream come true. I wanted to get into websites when I was leading high school and wasn't able to, and finally made that dream happen 20 years later. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

That's amazing. I did want to talk about that. I've been starting kind of each of these episodes talking about like what did you want to be when you were in those like formative years? And how have you kind of seen that desire uh kind of, you know, line its way through to where you are now?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

It's really interesting because I know I think the with one of the emails he'd sent me had said, like, you know, what did you do when you were seven years old? And what I wanted to be when I was seven to when I was in high school, there is sort of a similar threat, but it's not exact. So as a seven-year-old, the two things I was usually passionate about were dancing. I was such a mad pain tap dancer. I've been the next like Fredastera Ginger Rogers, I swear to God. Um, but the other thing that I loved was dinosaur. I did actually look at getting into a paleontology course for university when I was leaving high school. I know, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:56

I literally just had a conversation with someone who was like, I want to be a paleontologist. And I said, Yeah, I go back, we go back and listen to this episode. I said, didn't we all want to be paleontologists? And this just confirms we did. We all wanted to be paleontologists.

SPEAKER_00 4:12

So, like for so much of my childhood, because Jurassic Park came out when I was 13 and immediate, like, and even to this, like in one of my top five movies, I wanted to be Dr. Alan Grant. So I actually did geology as part of my higher school certificate, which is like the year 1112, um, graduating high school, the big dance out here. Um, and sort of my overall result because of the way that they scale things. But I just love geology, and even to this day, I still love geology. Um, but I found that it wasn't going to be something that I didn't want to be stuck in academia for forever. But at the same time, I'd gotten involved in websites and online fandom. It was sort of like that STEM line through it. I'd always been sort of really interested in. Um, and yeah, that was basically how I got into websites, was I started uh just this is back in the days of GeoCities and hand coding and that was my training, yeah. Training ground. So that was basically where I started and building fanished websites um for like different fandoms and stuff like that. And it just basically carried through as a hobby through that whole time. Um, when I was leaving high school, I was living in a little regional town. So there were options there for a lot of web designers. The only options were working for marketing agencies, which no offense, but they were all run by Dubros. No thank you. And web design for women just wasn't a thing. So it was only when I was leaving my government job in 2020. I needed something to replace my income, essentially. And I thought I'm gonna give web design. And it's amazing to see how many women there are in web design now. And that's one thing that's sort of come through this whole journey for me is at some point I would love to be able to mentor younger women who are coming through in particular in web design because they've got so much opportunity now that I didn't have when I was growing up. Um and I think it's fantastic that they do. So yeah, that's sort of the whole journey that I have been through from sort of, you know, dinosaur mad kids through to female web designer.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

So yeah, that's amazing. I I also this is based on no facts or research. I feel like there are a lot of amazing Australian women web designers. Like I don't that may just be like the side of the internet that I'm on, but I do feel like I know a fair amount of incredibly talented like women web designers in Australia.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Absolutely. And just from the networks that I'm a member of, and and some of them are multinational, like Facebook groups, stuff like that. But they just seem, I don't know if it's just that the Australians are very layout or very seem to be a lot of us. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 6:56

Um, I do I I feel like I have a lot of questions for you about sustainability. So I won't spend all of our time there, but I do want to spend a fair amount of time talking about that because I think, you know, uh I I think when we normally think about sustainability, we don't website is not the first thing that comes to my mind. So what are things that we are not thinking about with sustainability when it comes to like websites and you know, kind of the way we use them and design them?

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Well, I suppose the the place to start is that it's not just websites, but it's all digital anything. So anything we touch that is electronic and digital anything online, it creates a carbon footprint. And basically it is the um it is the movement of data between data centers all over the world that requires electricity to run, which then creates uh carbon emissions. Um that's basically where it comes from. And the way that the website side of things sort of uh fits in with that is that the eggier and slower a website is, the more data is transferring back and forth, the more electricity is needed, the higher the carbon emissions. So the idea is to basically to lower the carbon footprint of a website. You want to optimize the site as much as possible, make sure that it's loading fast, that all of your images have been optimized and compressed, that you're not using bloated code, all of those things that actually make for a better website experience anyway, actually help lower the carbon footprint.

SPEAKER_01 8:31

Okay. I that is like it's such an incredible explanation. How so how would I know if my website is sustainable? Like I know you you kind of mentioned a few things there, but what are some like keys maybe for me to take a look at?

SPEAKER_00 8:48

So the main things that I generally get people to check are there's a couple. So the first is to check the website carbon footprint. There's a couple of different carbon cap there that you can pop your URL in. So one is websitecarbon.com, another is ecograder.com, as in like grading your website, and the other is digitalbeacon.co. So what I do for any of my client sites when I'm working on is I actually take before and after performance estimates of them. I actually take an average between the three to see to give me a really sort of clear idea of where the carbon footprint is sitting. So that's the first thing to get an idea of the carbon footprint. And once you've got that, that gives you a starting point of oh, I have some work to do, or oh, it's not as bad as I actually think it was going to be. Um the integrated.com site in particular will actually give you a list of problem areas that you can actually attack and like action to make those things better on your website. That's the one I really recommend more than the others. The next step is in terms of sustainability, checking the accessibility of the website. And the same thing, you can just Google website accessibility checker, and there's a few different ones out there, like there's WAVE from webaim.org, which will give you basically a complete rundown of particularly one page in your website, of any of the issues that are there. So the really common things that we see are that the colour contrast is not great for people who are visually impaired. There's things like alt tags that are missing from images, so it means that screen readers can't read them. Um, but then other things like is your website, can it be navigated using your keyboard? Because not everyone can use a mouse or has access has access to a mouse for whatever reason. So there's things like that that you need to sort of take into you know consideration. The inclusive side of that is also about being inclusive in terms of the language and making sure that the websites can be used, not just accessibility-wise, but used, that this website is welcoming, that it's not turning people away. Um, so yeah, there's that side of things with the inclusivity. And then the last thing is I generally just get people to check how fast is their website actually loading at the moment. So tools like gtmetrics.com or even Google's PageSpeed Insights, any of those will give you an idea of how fast the site is loading. And they will generally give you a bit like with the carbon footprint calculators, it will give you a list of things that you can actually action and look at to help improve the website standing. Oh my goodness, that was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 11:13

Well, I mean, obvious it's obvious that there is so much passion for you for sustainability. Where does that come from? Like what's what sort of turned you in this direction?

SPEAKER_00 11:27

Yeah, it's funny. I mean, I I grew up by the beach. So I have always lived by the coast. And like when I was actually growing up in school, I lived in seaside town. Um, so I've always been very aware of the environment, always been very passionate about the environment, about the ocean, sort of stuff. And you will see that talking that's just these things for me. There's like there's a common line. So for me, it's always been a big part of who I was. But I sort of didn't, and I think in a way, it wasn't until 2020 hit, and obviously COVID and lockdowns and everything, and I started following coaches and stuff online and actually going into some of those cohorts. And they sort of asked the question, you know, what's your why? What is it you want to do? And I'm I feel like I'd sort of been lost for a few decades in there because I was just a government worker, just working for the paycheck and didn't really have my own identity and what is it that I want to do in this world? And for me, it's I want to make an impact in this world that's helping others and helping the environment. And that's sort of the the drawing line now for me. So yeah, that's that's basically sort of where all of this passion comes from, is it started when I was a kid, and now I feel like working through sustainable websites, I'm not only helping my clients, but I'm helping the wider population as well. And also just from an education and awareness side of things as well. Because when I first got into this sustainability years ago, no one really knew about it. There was like the smallest percentage of web designers who even had an idea. And I didn't actually find out about it myself until um I attended the Women of Web Summit. And Sandy from Green the Web was actually doing a talk on sustainability. And as soon as she started talking about it, I was like, oh my god, this is exactly what I've been looking to do in my business. Because seriously, I mean, I felt like, like you said before, there's so many women, Australian web designers, and I sort of felt like I was getting lost in the shuffle, but I was sort of like, what is my difference here? Like, what am I doing that's different to them? And this was something that just so perfectly aligned with my business and what I wanted to do in the world. I was just like, oh, it was like a lightning bolt, honestly. So I was sort of like all in from immediately that that point, I was like, that's it. I'm getting into this whole sustainability space and educating people around it because so, and even people who are in the sustainability space, and that may be things like eco-tourism businesses and stuff like that, they don't even understand. Like they may only get half of it. A lot of them are like, oh, we've got to make sure our website's accessible. I'm like, but do you realize that your website is also not performing in terms of carbon footprint? And they're like, what does that mean? So for me, there's just been this whole two years since I got into it has been about educating and raising awareness because so many people still don't understand that, yeah, there is a carbon footprint in anything we do online, but particularly with your websites.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

So did you uh reach out to Sandy and tell her, like, this is it.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

This is my I don't think I actually reached to her specifically, but I know I've tagged her a few times in various um Instagram posts, like when I was making the channel to sustainable websites, I tagged her and said, this is where this whole thing started. And she's like, Oh, it's so good. From what I've heard of what she had said is it's so good to see more people actually getting on. It's not so much a bandwagon, but just people following the movement and helping it to grow. Because it's really something that I think the thing that sort of not frightens but dawns people a little bit is that they hear the word sustainability, and particularly in regards to a website, it's like, oh God, that's either A going to be really bloody hard or it's going to cost me a ton of money. And it doesn't have to, either of those things. It really, really doesn't. And you start small. It's a bit like when I used to tell my clients when they wanted to get into SEO and actually running a website. I'm like, don't try and do it all at once. You will just absolutely frustrate yourself to high heaven and you'll probably want to give up. If you just start with one thing small, like just one page, it's the same thing with sustainability website in terms of improving your carbon footprint and that like just attack, you know, half a media library for the as a first step or something, you know, out there that will help you compress your images and alt tags so that you don't have to worry about it. Even little things like that, just every now and then will still improve the website. It's not an all-think thing. The way that I've always looked at sustainability is that I'm not, how do I put this? I'm not one of those people who is sort of like super, super, super, super strict with sustainability. I do everything I can to do, but I'm not gonna beat myself up if there are things that probably are terribly sustainable that I'm not doing in my life. Because as far as I'm concerned, if I'm doing a little bit, that's still better than I think. And if a lot of people are doing this, that's still going to make a difference. So that's my that's my life looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 16:15

I love it, I love it. So I I do want you to talk about whales. I just feel like it's it ha it uh we we have to. We have to. So is it like uh from always whales have always been a bit of like your muse, or did you like discover whales? And then yeah, let's just talk about your whale watching.

SPEAKER_00 16:41

So it's so funny because as I said, grew up um in a beachside community. Um, didn't see my first whale until 2011. So it was almost years after I left high school. Whale watching out of Brisbane over towards Morton Um Island, um, which is the traditional name for Morton Island up here. Um, yeah, and basically saw a mother and car, um, because I think it was later in the season that I went, and I was like, oh my god, this is amazing. And then it wasn't until three years later that I actually started watching seriously. And by that I mean 2010 was the first year that I went, and I have been every year since. So this is actually my 17th year consecutive season of whale watching. Amazing. When someone asked me, I was like, holy crap, how has it been that long? But yeah, from 2010 to now, I have been out every single season at least one or two trips, and it's something that never ever, ever gets old for me. I when I was working in the government, and I told my co-workers to say, What are you doing in the week? And I said, I'm going well watching. They're like, What again? And I'm like, A, don't harsh my buzz. It is something different happens every single time, and every trip that I have ever taken has been just spectacular. It is something I recommend highly enough for people to go and do to really particularly here, the East Coast population of whales, of hump pack whales in Australia are just it's pulling and awe-inspiring and exciting and fun. And the way that they are so curious about us is just blows your socks off. So, yeah, for anyone listening, wherever you are in the world, watching trip because you will just not obviously. It's just my absolute thing to do in the world. If I wasn't doing web design, I would probably see about I don't know, buying a boat and running my own tours because I just love going whale watching that much. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:39

That's amazing. I feel very inspired to go do it. I've I uh I love how much you love it. It is, it's absolutely contagious.

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yes, it's become so synonymous with my business. Funny, because the whale watching certainly came before all of that. And like when I first started my business as a VA in 2020, I had just this like really generic business name in a company. And it wasn't until 2021 that I thought I'm actually gonna work on the website design now because this is something I really have to do. And I was looking for a new business name, and the name Whale Capital came completely out of the blue. I was literally sitting on my bed on my phone, and it hit me, and I was like, oh my god. And the significance of the name is that every humpback whale's tail is completely unique, it's like a human fingerprint. So no two individuals have the same tail. And from a business point of view, that's how I see my completely individual, their needs are different. The way they're you know, out there in the world is completely unique to them, and it's also how I want to treat my clients and provide services that I want to provide to them. So that was how whale tail digital came about. And take it one step further. The actual whale tail in my logo is based off a photo that I took. The brand designer Brody Rose, who I got to do my branding, um, she I'd sent her a couple of photos, and that one, that whale is actually called Smiley because there's some his peduncle just below his tail that looks like a little emoji, a smiley face. So, yeah, that that is actually one of the ones that I photographed off the golf.

SPEAKER_01 20:16

That's amazing. I I had read on your site about the the whale tails, but I did not know that your logo is yet you, you know, you took that photo. That's amazing. So as we close, I have been asking, you know, if you had an opportunity, which you you essentially do here, to talk to entrepreneurs and other business owners, what is something that you want to make sure, like you wish that other business owners knew this thing?

SPEAKER_00 20:46

Well, I suppose personally, from my thing, is just that more people were aware of what their websites are doing, and not even necessarily from a sustainability point. A lot of people still see a website as oh, it's just a box I need to tick. And it's like your website can be so much more than that. It can be so much more than that. It's the team member working 24-7 when you're taking time off, or you're going, you know, to drop kids off to school or any of those things, it is still out there working for you. So it's not something you should just be like, oh, I've got a presence online. It's just something that I've forgotten about. Treat it as an actual tool that can bring in leads for you. Make sure that your contact form is working. But on the sustainability side, yes, please do just check the carbon footprint and make sure that it's not, you know, chugging out so much carbon that it's ridiculous. Like that you know, you know, you're putting some of these fossil fuel factories to shame or anything. Just it's such an easy thing to check and it's such an easy thing to fix as well. Um, but yeah, that's that's probably the thing. Just take your websites seriously, please. Don't just think of them as just, you know, a thing that you've got because they can do so much more for your business than that. Please.

SPEAKER_01 22:01

I love it. It's so it's amazing. I I love that perspective and and also, you know, that you've shared so much about that making your website sustainable and better for everyone, like better to use, better for you, better for the environment, can be something that is approachable. So thank you so much for for sh so generously sharing so much great information and just being an incredible human. It was so this was so fun.